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Marina Nikolova

Nikos Zigouris is chairman of the Union of Construction engineers in Greece and talk to us not only about the results from the liberalization of the profession, but also for the crisis in the construction and disastrous lack of government investment.

In what way will the occupation of Civil Engineers be affected by the law for the liberalization of the labor market?

I must stress that the profession of engineers as a whole - not just civil engineers, is not a closed profession. It is included into the discussion about the closed professions, but it is not. Closed professions are those which have either a numerical or geographical restriction. The profession of the engineer can be practiced by anyone who has the necessary qualities - after graduating from the university, one must pass examinations and if he passes them successful, he is entitled to exercise the profession. We are involved in the discussion of closed professions, because we are affected by the code of minimum wage, which is applied in Greece. When an engineer does his job, there is one way to calculate his minimum wage. The new law eliminates this. The point is that minimum wages currently applied, are often lower than what the engineer needs to be paid and if we leave it to him to decide, this payment will vary. The work that engineers do is related to the security of a building which we can not subject it to negotiations and say that would make a less safe home and you will pay us less. The house will be made according to security rules. But engineers like all other people work to live with the money they earn. At the moment they can offer several alternatives for the building to be stable but also economical. This however will no longer be the case. The home will be stable and secure, but will be at the expense of the economy. The removal of payments will affect the engineers, but it will eventually at a certain moment turn against society itself. The government will have to reflect on the fact that it loses revenues. When taking a given project and get 1000 euro, the government taxes them, but tomorrow when I go to pay my tax these 1000 euro, as there will be no contract for minimum wage, will be 400, i.e. the tax will be on those 400 and the VAT also will be on that amount. I.e. the state will lose.

In the last year there is an incredible drop in the construction industry, which is one of the most affected by the crisis areas. How has this affected you – the civil engineers?

It is clear that the profession of the engineers as a whole is affected a lot. This is another mistake of the government – although I don’t want to dabble in politics at this moment. When last year the government was elected, we met with the Secretary General for Economic Affairs and told him that what must be done in any case, to keep the economy and quality of life of the Greeks at an acceptable level is that they need to facilitate construction. A choice of the government was not to support construction and even turn against it by putting high taxes, increase value added tax without being able to stop the increase in prices of construction materials. So, the logical consequence was to decline the job of Civil Engineers, but also of 400 000 people employed in other 400occupations  related to construction. And it's clear the government's responsibility - it is a political choice. This is with regard to private projects, but there are also government projects. These include studies and construction, but none of these things is undergoing any longer because the program for public investment has been suspended and second - currently the Kalikratis program applies for the reorganization of the public administration. According to the Kalikratis program different departments unite and currently you can not turn to anyone for help because no one knows who is who and services do not work right now which will last for a long time.

When will the program of public investment start operationg?

The state will determine this, but money for this program is constantly decreasing. According to the data, large companies of contractors are firing employees, unemployment among civil engineers has risen to very high levels. It is not easy to understand how much, because engineers are freelance professionals and their firms are considered to be active. But you can see what is happening around us and how many people remain jobless. On the other hand the state owes a lot of money to some companies.

Last year the way of payment of taxes for engineers changed. How does the new system?

In June 2010 we had a surprise – an unpleasant one for us engineers. Before we were subjected to taxation under an objective system according to coefficients. This was done because costs can not be accurately determined. Last year the government decided that we will keep accounts – we will calculate revenue minus costs and will pay tax on the resulting difference. I had my objections on this issue, but we'll see what happens. I believe that this system will not work.

Tell me what happens to the professional rights of the engineers who are graduates of universities and those who receive degrees from colleges and vocational schools?

There is a mistake here, which I think is not only the fault of this government. There is a bug that affects some groups of scientists who have not determined their professional rights. Before the were saying - go with low scores in college and technical school and you will become an engineer. The truth is that people went into these colleges, because they could not get into university, but no one has ever become an engineer. And no one ever set out to determine precisely what the professional rights of these people are and to implement the technical pyramid. But at some point this became a problem and these people began to require professional rights. Today's government and in particular the Deputy Minister of Education Panaretos who I can not understand why he has such a strange position against universities, took out some presidential decrees, which make vocational schools essentially equivalent to the universities. We are not against the idea that graduates of technical schools should have professional rights, on the contrary. We want those people who have graduated from technical high schools, colleges and wherever else there are technical professions to have established professional rights that are clear and not disputed. So anyone who goes to a faculty or school to know what rights he will be given when he graduates. The worst thing is to leave schools without professional rights. In our opinion, a discussion should be held from the beginning about the professional rights of all. Not only of those who graduate from technical schools, but also graduates from the colleges in order to solve this issue and to be no ambiguities. We are not a supermarket. There is a science related to this profession and if someone does not have the necessary knowledge to build a house, it is impossible for the society to leave that person build and for people to come to live inside. It is very simple - every man should have the rights for what he has studied.

How many members does the union of the civil engineers have in which you are President and what activities you do?

We have 25,000 members - these are graduate civil engineers. According to the statute they should even be graduates from the Polytechnic University "Metsovio" or from another Greek university or equivalent school. We are a scientific union, and not a trade union body and our aim is to support the positions of civil engineers and to inform our members about new developments.

Students who graduate to be civil engineers overseas, how can they gain the right to practice their profession in Greece?

Any student who graduates in Greece undergoes through the exams in the Technical Chamber to obtain permission to practice their profession. When he successfully passes the exams, he enters in the register and may practice. Our colleagues who have graduated abroad must first pass through the National Information Centre for academic recognition of the diplomas - the office that approves whether the subjects and the system of education correspond to the one in the Greek universities. Then it may recognize that the graduate students is a civil engineer, or will require him to go through some exams which most often are on subjects relating to anti-earthquakes methods of construction.

Are there any optimistic forecasts for your profession in the country? How are the projects on  bioclimatic buildings developing?

In times of crisis it is strange to talk about prospects. The profession of Civil Engineers is a dynamic profession. It is constantly evolving new ways are opened, new materials come out, new methods. Bioclimatic design is a method that will be applied in our country. I would not say that this is perspective, i.e. that the entire profession will go that way. This is one way of design, which should be adopted. The prospectives of our profession are not clear. The future is bleak because it is not clear what the government wants to do. If the government says it will support the program for state subsidies, then there is a chance to open the profession, to have new members, to have new engineers. So this profession that has such a wide range, its perspective is set by the government. If the government came out and said that it removes the value added tax on construction works sales will pick up, because all buildings will become cheaper by 23%. And when sales pick up the construction industry will also pick up, because those who sell will start the construction of a new building and people will start to work.

What are generally the problems, which civil engineers in Greece face in their everyday practice?

One problem is unfair competition. This occurs when the power or a given position is abused. When someone takes advantage of a certain position to obtain employment. Other problems are associated with poor use of professional rights. There are engineers who have been arrested because they signed for the construction of buildings that can not be signed to be built because they endanger people. Another big problem is that there is no record of the builders of private sites. There are no clear rules and prerequisites for the construction of sites. When an engineer is responsible for a building he has to deal with the craftsmen and workers who know from their experience what to do, but sometimes they only know roughly. But they do not have to obtain a document or certificate for their knowledge of what to do. In Greece we say "whatever you claim – this is what you are" but this is wrong. So we want to have a registry so as to show how many years one has worked and what one knows how to do.