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Anastasia Balezdrova

Less than a month remains to the second elections in Greece, the polarization in society is high and the polls ranking the radical left SYRIZA first are stirring the majority of Greeks. GRReporter talked with Thanos Veremis - political history professor at the University of Athens, about the eventual outcome of the elections, the political relationships, the political system and the repeating history. In the elections on 6 May, he ran for the post of deputy with Stefanos Manos’ party Drasi. Now, however, he will not participate, "because the stakes are very high, as it depends on them whether Greece will remain in the euro area and the European Union."

Mr. Veremis, what caused the rise of SYRIZA? Do you think it is only temporary or it will last for long?

The impressive rise of the radical left is due on the one hand to the very poor economic situation of the country, which creates a sense of hopelessness. Above all, it is based on public officials’ fear of losing their jobs later. Currently, the unemployed in the country who number over one million are former employees of the private sector. So far, the public sector has not been touched. Therefore, its employees are uniting around SYRIZA which is promising many different things. The main one being that when they take power, they will cancel the Memorandum of financial assistance. We are currently seeing a change in tone, but it still remains their main promise.

Another evil is that both New Democracy and PASOK are in a state of decline and their leaderships are very problematic. Alexis Tsipras looks young, handsome, energetic and cute to girls. How could Evangelos Venizelos and especially Antonis Samaras who has lost his temper handle him? Samaras was not particularly inspiring the followers of New Democracy anyway and now, he is not inspiring anyone.

I think the phenomenon called SYRIZA is completely temporarily. Alexis Tsipras has no idea of how to deal with the likelihood of his party taking power. He is looking at things from the position of the party, which is uniting the protesters and its strength is not more than 4%. Alexis Tsipras and the group of leading figures around him who he had determined as ignorant and that is the least I can say about them, are speaking about a bunch of extremes and they are frightening people. SYRIZA consists of 12 components, each with its own ideas and a big mess reigns there. Starting from Maoists and go to neo-Maoists, Trotskyites, fans of Fidel Castro, etc. It is simply impossible for an ordinary person to find the right track and understand the expressions of each of the components of the coalition. As I said, the average citizen likes Alexis Tsipras. He is a young and inexperienced politician but he is smart enough to learn things over time.

His rise will not last for long, at least no longer than 1-2 weeks. In my opinion, SYRIZA will not win the election and will be the second party in terms of number of votes.

This means that New Democracy will be the first party, according to you.

Yes, I think so. It will win about 26-27% of the votes and SYRIZA - between 22-23%. Then, it will be possible to form a cabinet and it will be a shame if the politicians do not do it. New Democracy, PASOK and the Democratic Left should be able to form a cabinet.

An alliance between the party Drasi with which you participated in the elections on 6 May and Tzimeros Thanos’ party "ReCreate Greece" will be announced tomorrow. Do you think they would participate in a coalition government?

If they manage to cross the 3% limit - yes, they will surely participate. But I'm not sure they will reach that percentage in those elections which are very much polarized. It is not impossible but it will be difficult.

Will you participate in the elections again?

No, I will not participate because the stakes in the elections on 17 June will be much higher than in the previous ones. We all knew that in the elections on 6 May, people would vote to punish the political system and that is exactly what happened. The vote in favour of SYRIZA was more punitive than constructive. This time, I think the stakes are whether Greece will remain in the euro area or not.
 
In the context of Greece’s involvement in international organizations, the U.S. journal Foreign Policy published a poll conducted among 59 analysts, politicians and experts. Eighteen of them indicated that if one of the NATO countries should be expelled, this should be Greece. What is your comment?

NATO? These people are completely stupid. If they had said that concerning the European Union, I would accept it because there is a reason for such an action. But what does this have to do with the Alliance, to which Greece has always been true and has participated in constructively? What is the reason for this? What has Greece done against NATO? I have no other comment about the people who conducted this poll.

In your opinion, what is the reason for the failure to create a broad pro-European front involving the centre-right force and PASOK in order to secure the membership of Greece in the European structures?

It is the fact that party leaders are extremely unthinking. Samaras and Venizelos compete to prove who is more stupid. They do not realize that the day after the elections, they and their parties can have no presence in the political life of Greece. Instead of trying to save their parties, and especially the country, by creating an alliance, even after the elections on 6 May and integrate Stefanos Manos or any other good man, they are not doing this. Valuable people in New Democracy are few: Kyriakos Mitsotakis, Kostis Hatzigakis, Marietta Yianakou, Nikolaos Dendias and Spyros Taliadourous. And there starts the downhill. I admit that I do not know the young candidates. Some capable people could have appeared during the elections. The people who I mentioned above come from the old generation of traditional bourgeois families. They were once the majority of New Democracy. Now, the party has fallen because of its attempt to follow the example of Andreas Papandreou in populism. So, "stars" like Panos Kamenos were born, who is non-existent as a political figure. He should be working in a shop or bank, as every good Christian. Why does this man, who has nothing in his head, need policy?

His votes as well as those of Golden Dawn are votes lost by New Democracy, because of the populists who have emerged in it. This process started during the term of Costas Karamanlis but reached its apogee during Antonis Samaras’ leadership and his moves against the Memorandum last year. He opposed it and until people saw what he was driving at, he suddenly supported it. Until people became aware, he included in the ballot George Simbilidis (who was the reason for the collapse of the government of New Democracy in 1993) to remind supporters of the party who has spat in their face. Then, he erased his name from them just as quickly as he had included it. Well, do you understand now how the average supporters of New Democracy feel? Mr. Samaras’ tactics have defeated them. Unfortunately, they have to support him. Because the other choice is to entirely leave the eurozone and the European Union.

In an interview for GRReporter immediately after the parliamentary elections in 2009 you said that Costas Karamanlis had no political future. Do you continue to support such an opinion?

Absolutely! How is it possible for Costas Karamanlis to have a future? He left chaos behind and left the party "running," without assessing the errors. Nothing like that happened and the feeling he left was as if he had never existed.

I am asking you this question because some say that he is only able to unite the centre-right forces.

Are you kidding? It is like saying that the one to blame for the tragic state of New Democracy in recent years will correct the bad things. Only a new leadership that will discard half of those who are there can change New Democracy. I already mentioned the names of some of them. Makis Voridis could be eventually among them to "repatriate" the votes of those who followed Panos Kamenos and Golden Dawn.

What is your opinion about Dora Bakogiannis’ return to New Democracy?

I do not know under what conditions this happened but the people who have returned with her have no value. They are ordinary would-be politicians like everyone else. Dora Bakogiannis is so deep in the old mode of action of parties and although she is clever, I do not think she would be able to find herself again. She just could not do it. She takes people as votes and does not see their value and abilities. If she were taking the things that way, she would unite with Stefanos Manos. And if Samaras could realize how tragic the situation is in New Democracy and he is to blame for it, he would at least call back Stefanos Manos.

You are a historian and it is interesting to say whether Greece has ever been in another political situation as difficult as today's.

Yes, after the elections in March 1950. Then the people punished again the two major parties - the People's Party and the Liberal Party, with very low election results similar to those of today. In 1946, the People's Party won 55.5% of the votes and four years later, after the Civil War, it reached 19%, which is equal to the vote of New Democracy now. The Liberal Party, which is like PASOK, lead by another but true Venizelos - Sofokles Venizelos who, however, was not much better than today’s Evangelos Venizelos, also received a rate similar to that of PASOK. The third party that achieved significant political presence in the elections in 1950 was EPEK. It resembles SYRIZA without Alexis Tsipras. I am saying this because its leader Nikolaos Plastiras was an honest man and patriot, not very easy to communicate with because he was an officer, but certainly, he was brave and had good intentions. I.e. the opposite of Alexis Tsipras, who is smart and energetic and God help us with him.

So, it will take many years in order for something new to come.

I fear that when something new comes it will be too late, because the limit for this is the next election. If SYRIZA wins and manages to form a government with the Democratic Left things will become very complicated. If New Democracy wins and manages to work with PASOK and possibly with someone else, and then a purge of the "blue" party follows, which does not seem very likely, we can have a little hope.